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Message: 5475

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:12:58

Subject: Re: One way to block web advertising

From: dkeenanuqnetau

--- In tuning-math@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote:
> --- In tuning-math@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
> > I'm using the Guidescope proxy service. It's working for me.
> > See http://www.guidescope.com *
> 
> Doesn't seem to block the ads in the messages... any suggestions
> to get it to work?

It's blocking them for me. I just see a piece of text saying 
"ADVERTISEMENT".

I'm still using an old version.
guide: version 2000/10/09-19:20:21
Guidescope Proxy(TM) 0.98
I don't know if that has anything to do with it. 

Doesn't it have a way for you to manually tell it you don't want to 
see a certain ad again? It's been a while since I installed it.


top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5476 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:52:58 Subject: Re: One way to block web advertising From: clumma >It's blocking them for me. I just see a piece of text saying >"ADVERTISEMENT". Hmm. Cool. >Doesn't it have a way for you to manually tell it you don't >want to see a certain ad again? It's been a while since I >installed it. Maybe it has something to do with the firewall I'm behind. Anyway, I've recently decided I shouldn't have to run software to stop ads (and something about sending all my http trafic through some company's server in New Jersey raises a red flag). Instead, I'll just send an angry e-mail to yahoo, and eventually quit using their service. I'm really tired of ads. I don't have any deep philosophical thing to say here, for once. I'm just tired of seeing them. -Carl
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5479 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:26:39 Subject: Re: Well . . . From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote: > --- In tuning-math@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote: > > > I don't know what's going on here, but it sure reminds me of the > > Riemann zetafunction! > > It implies things about the zeta function, and I want to post about > it to sci.math.research; am I correct in thinking that you are the > one who discovered this? It's pretty safe to assume that. > I also am wondering if you are going to sic > Matlab's FFT on the 5-limit also. You mussed have mist it.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5480 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:30:50 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote: > --- In tuning-math@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote: > > Hey Dave, > > > > Continuing our conversation from the tuning list, I plugged in the > > unison vectors 243:245 and 224:225 into Graham's temperament finder, > > and got Graham's MAGIC temperament. Graham gives a generator of > > 380.39 cents. The 19-tone MOS would have 7 otonal and 7 utonal > > tetrads, with a maximum error of 5+ cents. > > > > How many tetrads did your MIRACLE Vitale 19 have, Dave? (by which I > > mean Rami Vitale's scale, without 21/16, 63/32, 8/7, 12/7, and > > Miraclized.) > > It has 5 otonal and 5 utonal 7-limit tetrads with max error of 2.7 c. Now -- if you think of this as a linear temperament where _only_ 224:225 is tempered out, I bet you can reduce that error even further. But: maybe you want those extra tetrads that MAGIC gives you. I would. (Clearly I'm using a _subjective_ goodness measure, but I would want to impose that _after_ I had a nice _flat_ survey.)
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5481 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:32:43 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote: > Dave, didn't you once show that the number of o- and > u-tonal chords must be the same in any linear temp., > of any number of notes? > > -Carl Huh? Compare 7-meantone with 7-chain-of-minor thirds.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5482 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:36:50 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: paulerlich I wrote, > Now -- if you think of this as a linear temperament where _only_ > 224:225 is tempered out "linear" should read "planar"
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5483 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:02:43 Subject: A theory From: paulerlich Since 612 is the "tuning of schismas", any near-multiple of 612 will be more likely to have the schisma vanish, and thus to do 5-limit well, than non-near-multiple of 612. This is similar to how the diatonic semitone produces a bit of periodicity in the smaller 5- limit ETs, with peaks at 19 and 22, 31 and 34, 41 and 43, 53 and 55. So . . . there must be some very significant 7-limit comma lurking at about 1/1664 octave. This is the Breedsma, which equals exactly one step of 1663.89978-tET.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5484 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:28:08 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: clumma >> Dave, didn't you once show that the number of o- and >> u-tonal chords must be the same in any linear temp., >> of any number of notes? >> >> -Carl > > Huh? Compare 7-meantone with 7-chain-of-minor thirds. I realized this ambiguity after I posted. I meant, any given linear temp. taken to any given number of notes. -C.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5485 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:32:04 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: clumma > If the tuning has a point of reflective symmetry (not necessarily > at a note) then there will be the same number of otonal as utonal. Symmetry with respect to what? If it doesn't have to be a note, any continuous single-generator chain will have it. -Carl
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5489 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:34:59 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: clumma >>>> I realized this ambiguity after I posted. I meant, >>>> any given linear temp. taken to any given number of >>>> notes. >>> >>> That doesn't quite do it. You meant: >>> >>> .. that the number of o-tonal chords is the same as the number >>> of u-tonal chords in any linear temp. taken to any number of >>> notes. >> >> You took out the "given"?? > > Put 'em back if you like, but there doesn't seem to be any > ambiguity now without them, or am I missing something? You said, "that doesn't quite do it".... Anyway, without the givens, one could read... "all linear temperaments have the same number of o- and u-tonal chords", as Paul seems to have done. -Carl
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5491 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:35:50 Subject: Re: A theory From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote: > --- In tuning-math@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote: > > > Since 612 is the "tuning of schismas", any near-multiple of 612 will > > be more likely to have the schisma vanish, and thus to do 5-limit > > well, than non-near-multiple of 612. > > It's not likely to have the schisma vanish; quite the reverse. What it *is* going to do is to represent the schisma as a certain number of steps with great accuracy. Oops -- that's what I meant! > > > So . . . there must be some very significant 7-limit comma lurking at > > about 1/1664 octave. This is the Breedsma, which equals exactly one > > step of 1663.89978-tET. > > You seem to be on to something, but why just the breedsma? This still seems to require more explanation. You bet!
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5492 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:37:11 Subject: Re: Badness with gentle rolloff From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote: > >> Sorry, Gene, but I'm not following where you're getting these > >> exponents. Is there a simple rule or reason I'm missing? > >> > >> -Carl > > > > It has to do with Diophantine approximation theory. Have you read > > Dave Benson's course notes? > > I've looked at them. What I could understand looked mundane, > and what I couldn't looked like it required quite a bit more > math than I know. Is there a section of the Benson which is > particularly helpful here? > > -Carl Well, he does mention the Diophantine approximation exponent for N-term ratios.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5493 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:42:07 Subject: Re: the 75 "best" 5-limit ETs below 2^17-tET From: paulerlich --- In tuning-math@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote: > --- In tuning-math@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote: > > Assuming a "critical exponent" of 3/2 for this case (is that right?) > > Correct, but could you give the exact definition of badness you are using? badness = steps^(3/2)*sqrt((err(3/2)^2 + err(5/3)^2 + err(5/4)^2)/3) I tried both ignoring consistency and setting badness to infinity for inconsistent ETs; either way, the pattern (power spectrum of 1/badness) looked about the same. >I also could not find the FFT data you said you posted. I simply mentioned that the result looked about the same as the 7-limit case but with the peak at 612 . . . if you like I can post the graph when I get back to the office . . .
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5494 Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:18:31 Subject: Re: Some commas and Paul's chart From: paulerlich The reason the schisma and the breedsma may be showing up as so important is that they're far smaller than any simpler commas in their respective limits. So most of the good ETs go along for a while treating them as if they don't exist, but once they are treated as a finite number of steps in the ETs, a whole new standard of 5- or 7-limit accuracy is attained. Perhaps we should look more closely at the lower periods in the FFT, all of which are kind of squished toward the left in the graph that I posted . . . the first example of this kind of phenomenon in 5-limit would be 15:16, about 1/11 octave, producing high points in the 5-limit ET graph wherever it's a near-integer number of steps: 1 (12-tET), 2 (19-tET, 22-tET), 3 (31-tET, 34-tET), 4 (41-tET, 43-tET), 5 (53-tET, 55-tET). Clearly we're on the path to a full (or fuller) understanding of the patterns that have been known for decades, if not centuries, in the graph of ET quality, and have typically been regarded as random noise, aside from instances where the sum of two good ETs is a good ET.
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5495 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:30:28 Subject: inverse of matrix --> for what? From: monz As Paul stated recently in a Tuning List post, the three unison-vectors 50:49, 64:63, and 245:243 define 22-EDO tuning. Rewriting those as a (3^x)*(5^y)*(7^z) matrix, we get: matrix | 0 2 -2 | |-2 0 -1 | |-5 1 2 | Using Microsoft Excel's "minverse" function, as explained in Graham's webpage: Matrix tutorial * decimal inverse | 0.045454545 -0.272727273 -0.090909091 | | 0.409090909 -0.454545455 0.181818182 | |-0.090909091 -0.454545455 0.181818182 | Excel's "mdeterm" function gives 22 as the determinant of the original matrix. Multiplying the inverse of the matrix by the determinant gives the inverse as fractional parts of 22: fractional inverse | 1 -6 -2 | * 1 | 9 -10 4 | -- |-2 -10 4 | 22 My questions: what does this inverse explain? What purpose does it serve? You all know that I prefer dealing with exact fractional numbers, if they exist, rather than approximate floating-point decimals. So why is this fractional inverse matrix useful? Do these integers tell us something about 22-EDO? Or about 22-EDO's representation of the prime-factors? ???? love / peace / harmony ... -monz http://www.monz.org * "All roads lead to n^0" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail Setup *
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5496 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:31:34 Subject: Re: formula for meantone implications? From: monz Hi J, Thanks for the explanation and corrections. - monz > From: unidala <JGill99@xxxxxx.xxx> > To: <tuning-math@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:28 AM > Subject: [tuning-math] Re: formula for meantone implications? > > > J Gill: If (to characterize what you are doing) there is a necessity > for the (independent variable) domain (in X) to result in *two* > values of the (dependent variables) ranges (in Y and in Z), then it > is not describable as a "function" (where there cannot be a "one to > two" correspondence between the independent variable (X) and either > of the independent variables (Y and Z). > > <etc. -- snip> _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail Setup *
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5497 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:49:24 Subject: Re: formula for meantone implications? From: monz > From: monz <joemonz@xxxxx.xxx> > To: <tuning-math@xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 1:31 PM > Subject: Re: [tuning-math] Re: formula for meantone implications? > > > Hi J, > > Thanks for the explanation and corrections. > > > - monz It seems to work OK, but I'm still confused. What I'm looking for is a way to mathematically define the implied ratios, with the requirement that when the meantone pitch is *exactly* midway between two ratios, both ratios must be given as answers. -monz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail Setup *
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5498 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 05:05:17 Subject: formula for meantone implications? From: monz Hello all, Please take a look at Yahoo groups: /tuning-math/files/monz/formula1-6-cmt.gif * This is an x-y plot of the numeric relationship between the pitches of 1/6-comma meantone their their acoustically closest implied 5-limit JI ratios, as illustrated on my lattice at lattices comparing various Meantone Cycles, (c)2001 by Joseph L. Monzo * I suppose calculus is need to derive this numerically, since some values of x have two values for y and z, yes? In cases where there are two values for both y and z (i.e., -3 and +3 on my graph, and -3-6x and 3+6x if it were to be continued), the lower z goes with the top y and vice versa. If someone is interested in this, I would also appreciate formulas for the other meantone systems on my webpage, as well as a generalized formula if one can be derived. love / peace / harmony ... -monz http://www.monz.org * "All roads lead to n^0" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail Setup *
top of page bottom of page up down Message: 5499 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:42:03 Subject: Vitale 19 (was: Re: Temperament calculations online) From: dkeenanuqnetau --- In tuning-math@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote: > You said, "that doesn't quite do it".... > > Anyway, without the givens, one could read... "all linear > temperaments have the same number of o- and u-tonal chords", > as Paul seems to have done. You seem to have missed the important change I made. I put "same" in between "o" and "u", instead of after them. Instead of the number of o and u are the same in any ... I made it the number of o is the same as the number of u in any ...
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